Topic 408 - RU58841 (forum # 7)

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Re: RU58841, flutamide, or castration:  which is more effect...

From: maneless to Bryan
Date: 02 Jun 2001
Time: 11:16:46
Remote Name: 152.163.197.179

Comments

>>>Is that the only reply you can make when I give you evidence for the powerful effects of castration? "Oh, well...animals are animals, and humans are humans...you haven't proved that castration works the same way in both of them". Not much of a counter-argument, is it?>>>

Bryan my point is a very good point because castration has some effects that antiandrogen therapy does. All I have to do is point to the fact that topical spironolactone is highly effective in hamsters but has poor results in humans demonstrates my point. Just because reducing androgens has a specific effect/or lack of effect on target tissue in animals does not establish what it will do in humans. The same applies for castration, which like antiandrogen therapy, reduces androgen. Dr. Marty Saway herself said in her antiandrogen article about the different antiandrogens, that the different antiandrogens are more/less effective in different human conditions. So there's a difference in how specific antiandrogens perform in different conditions of the same species, and now you wish to compare androgen reduction of two different species.

>>>Rather than SPECULATE that antiandrogen therapy might be more effective than castration, why not try to find evidence for that claim? I presented evidence that castration is more powerful than antiandrogens; can you find any evidence that contradicts it?>>>

You presented evidence in animals, not humans. We do not even know if there's still androgens left in the body of those animals after castration. Let's assume there is, and let me advance this point: So what if castration was more effective than antiandrogens in those studies because both the antiandrogen therapy or castration still left androgen in the body so even better antiandrogen therapy (leaving no androgen in the body) would have even better results than castration or the antiandrogen therapy in the studies you cited.

>>>What do you mean, "plenty of androgen"??? Castration removes 95% of total androgen. It's a DRASTIC reduction in androgens.>>>

Castration leaves behind a lot of androgen. There's still lots of DHT and testosterone. There's still over 30% of DHT. We want to get rid of ALL androgen, especially ALL DHT.

>>>I have NEVER EVER said such a thing. Castration removes 95% of androgens. Who could POSSIBLY call that a "ton of androgen"??>>>

Bryan

Bryan, you're supposed to use the minoxidil on your head not drink it for it's alcholol content. I am not sure I accept that 95% figure. It sounds kind of dubious to me, especially since your own citation (Hamilton) established there was still over 30% of DHT and DHT is the most powerful androgen. Also, Hamilton said there was still about 10% or more of TESTOSTERONE didn't he? Bryan, DHT and TESTOSTERONE are the 2 most powerful androgens. We definitely need to get rid of all of these. DHT is the known number one killer of hair and yet you want to say that leaving over 30% of DHT in the body has no implications to hairloss.

maneless

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